At some point, when it's mission critical and reshoots cost both a fortune and your future in the industry, you end up getting the value of the prices of professional gear.
@@dennypilot9856 then are you really sure that you really know how to use them? I have seen individuals complaining about Sennheiser’s wireless G4 cause it get so much interference, turns out they just used it out of the box without changing any of the settings…
@@dennypilot9856 And usually, pro gear is repairable and the companies who offer it also offer repair options. Consumer electronics companies often do not in 2022.
@@naruto5046 pro gear is produced by companies with much smaller R&D and production budgets than the largest tech companies in the world... Yet products produced by Samsung, Google (especially Google), Apple fail too.
Great overview Curtis. Pros require bulletproof equipment and you pay for that. Movies and TV shows range from $10-$200 per SECOND on many union shows and they don't tolerate waiting for nonreliable gear. They'll replace you if you can't acquire the sound they require and when. The biggest issue I have with the A20 is that it's completely menu driven. On the A10 if we do a rolling restart and I have 5-10 seconds to turn on the limiter or increase the power, I can do that but on the A20 I have to connect my phone to the A20, navigate the menu and make the adjustment. Annoying.
I suspect that we'll be seeing a more full-featured but larger A20TX before long, hopefully with an upgrade option similar to what they offered for the A10RX. In addition to the phone UI hassles, it also can't do things like balanced inputs via AC-BALXLR-4. That leaves the boom operators out of the party.
@Sound Speeds And yet they'll give hours to the lighting and camera dept to do their bit, but expect us to be ready in 5 minutes, I've been fired before because the director didn't like me adjusting my boom pole or wrangling cables because we were falling behind, he didn't seem to mind the talent blowing their lines though. And....there's never a budget to rent audio kit, but renting cameras and lighting is a tradition. I always see job adverts for soundies ending with "must have own kit" I'm an indie soundie working low budget but I experience this already.
@@curtisjudd they just released today the A20-Mini battery backpack, it makes me wonder if perhaps they won't update the A10 TX, and intend the A20-Mini to be the only one, now that they've "fixed" the very poor battery life.
Other big reasons to use professional wireless: Removable antennas for the transmitters and receivers. (so you can for instance include them in an RF Distro) A range of compatible transmitter options. (I reckon this was one of the biggest reasons Lectrosonics became so successful. Want a waterproof TX? Done. Want a micro sized TX? Done. Want a TX with massive battery life? Done. Want a no frill cheaper TX? Done. etc etc etc)
Always glad to see pro gear discussed here. It has its place, for sure. Get a reputation for holding up production to mess with balky sound gear and you'll soon be home with your feet up, not hired. I recently saw a short video about the lead on-set mixer-recordist on the Heartland (CBC) series. In my opinion, the Heartland dialog sound is among the best and cleanest I've ever heard. There just isn't time in this guy's day for tinkering with balky gear. All of his equipment must be highly portable for the many set locations -- many are outdoors. Outdoor temps in Alberta are hugely variable, and I've seen them film in the falling snow and rain. The crew is huge and daylight is precious. You wouldn't want to be 'that guy' who holds up the production schedule due to interference, garbled dialog, or cable/connector failures. Eh? ;)
As a self funded person, I can't afford this type of upgrade yet. I have to say this type of video is very helpful to understand what is available and why. Your videos and your courses have helped me SO very much Curtis, Thank you for the work you do.
The UK and Canada versions have recording and transmitting mode enabled simultaneously since the zaxcom patent doesn't apply in those regions. Pretty awesome.
I use the DJI system currently but I can certainly see the need for the A20 Mini when doing big budget work where reliability, quality and speed are the priority. It's like the difference with using Sound Devices recorders compared to ZOOM or TASCAM units. They all can do the job and they all have their own niche uses. The same as when NAGRA was the chosen over UHER and other analog reel tape recorders used for portable location recordings. A comparison of the RODE, DJI and the Sound Devices wireless recorders would be interesting if presented in a single presentation.
@@curtisjudd Sorry ...late night typing mistake. Yes I do mean DJI as it's sitting on my desk in front of me this very moment. AARRGGHH I've updated my original post.
I'm not surprised that this costs so much. Professional camera gear is expensive too and has a lot more features than consumer gear. People don't wonder about that as much. But great sound is just as important as a great picture if not even more important.
I'd love to know how they crammed floating-point into the same width channel as the existing A10TX. I can't help but wonder if they're actually sending some flavor of FP24 over the air to keep the bitrate constant. That would be reasonable and very unlikely to introduce any detectable quality degradation relative to A10TX's Int24. The fact that an A10RX can accept the A20's full-range signal with only a firmware upgrade indicates just how much programmability (presumably via FPGA) high end SD stuff has. I would not be surprised to see FP recording in the 8-series before long, again via firmware/bitstream upgrade. For now you can simply route the A20 to multiple channels with different trim values to create safety channels. One thing the A20 can't do AFAIK is handle balanced mics as the A10TX can. I expect to see an A20TX for that before long. Also probably worth mentioning that you can get your A10RX upgraded to A20RX for $750 if you buy an A20 or if you bought your A10RX within the last 12 months. It's $1K otherwise IIRC. I'm not sure I'd choose the DJI Mic as my example of a consumer system. It's slick and convenient, but with every mic I tested (DPA 4060, COS-11D, Deity, random cheap ones I have laying around) its noise floor was significantly worse than the fixed-gain Rode Go II, regardless of the DJI's TX gain setting. Admittedly the noise floor is more than good enough for simple close-mic'ed applications, but even so I'd choose the Rode just to not have to worry about it.
I bought two of these and as great as the size is - not having manual buttons loses points for me. After one drop inside of a house the bluetooth connectivity for one device broke so the only thing I could do was manually turn it on and off, couldn't change the frequency. Then the battery doubler for one snapped off when I was just opening it. Wasn't forceful or anything, it just broke at the hinges. Pretty disappointed given how expensive these are and accidents can happen on set. I'm sending it in for repair and I'm lucky that the gig I'm on is fairly simple in terms of the number of characters that I can work with what I have left. Back ups of back ups are important and it's a learning lesson for me moving forward with Sound Devices transmitters. At least the A10's have buttons and are compatible with the A20 RX, so I might work with those and only use the A20's if absolutely necessary for less bulk and easier hiding.
Thanks for making this video, Curtis. It's a really good overview of the advanced features along with use cases showing when and where a professional would rely on them. Well done! - Martin
When the antenna is placed very close to the skin I've heard several reports of lower than expected range with the A20, that I haven't experienced with the Zaxcom ZMT4 and ZMT4-X. Also Shure Axient Digital definitely has the best transmission range across the board. If Shure implements simultaneous record and transmit when the Zaxcom patent expires in 2025, I'll strongly consider switching to them.
The firmware for the Long Range modulation came out not too long ago, so I’d reassess the lower expected range claims now. I’m sure they’re similar to Shure now. So both of them stand at the top in terms of range. You’re right though. It hardly matters for Zax since you have a backup while transmitting with Zax. Can’t wait until their patent expires haha
Thanks this was a great and helpful overview to understand Pro vs. Semi-Pro. It pains me that the Zaxcom patent cripples so many Pro, Semi-Pro, and Consumer wireless devices in the States. Unfortunately the patent doesn't expire until 2030.
Even as an amateur, as much as I love my Rode Wireless Go, it runs on the same spectrum as my camera's remote control app. So, I am often losing the connection to my camera once I turn on my wireless mic.
Hi Curtis, How about phantom power? Does it have its own phantom power? Hence, Can I use it as a boom mic transmitter? As always, thank you for this and all your videos on RUclips. Your channel has been my favorite for years
In addition to the valid reasons listed for the high price, there is also the basic factor of a low volume market in play. They don't sell nearly as many of these as for example Shure & its wireless products, which means they aren't producing in the sort of quantities that Shure does, hence the component cost will be higher.
The scale of economics comes in to play also . This pro level equipment is very highly engineered and developed and is going to be sold to a customer base that will be a lot smaller than say consumer level wireless systems. Rode, DJI and others are hoping to sell tens or even hundred of thousands of their units while systems like the A20 will be sold in much smaller quantities to a much more niche group of people. They have to get that R&D money back on a much smaller per unit basis. Even if Sound Devices sold a million of them it would still cost more because it's a higher quality and more capable unit. As I always say, cheaper consumer level equipment works well in ideal conditions and the pro level equipment works well in less than ideal conditions. And that is why it cost more.
I believe in the production sound world, most of the manufacturers supply the niche retailers but your point stands. They only sell through specialized retailers with staff skilled enough to not only represent and sell the gear, but in many cases, also service the gear.
Thank you, Curtis very informative documentary, on Sound Devices radio mic. Is case very strong, meaning can radio mic withstand height of 100 feet drop onto on to concrete from block of apartments.
Hi Curtis, I really enjoyed the video. Mainly because you presented a fact, i.e. professional gear is expensive and worth it, without fuss and with the level of professionalism that characterise your videos. Thanks a lot! Finally, I work in another field and I can promise that the prices we are talking about here very low in comparison, 😉
Hey Curtis, thanks for this video! But may I ask why there is so much noise gating going on this time while you're talking? I'm listening over headphones and got quite distracted because of the obvious noise floor when you are speaking, but not in the pauses. Doesn't happen in other videos. What was the cause? RF transmitting?
People así me why I rig up the camera and carry large batteries and loads of lighting gear to small gigs. I'd rather be over prepared than stopping the shoot because conditions changed and I'm not ready.
I chose this, but, but, but, the A20 mini is a special purpose TX and I only use it when I have to hide on wardrobe is very form fitting or when the shoot will be short. Battery life is very short on this. I use the regular A10 RX for most cases.
Hey Curtis! I've actually been waanting to get a pair of these as my next big purchase for my kit. I have a set of a10s already and love them. I know the qualiy of the a20 transmiters is amazing, however i hear bad things about the battery life? do you know how long it would last with the sony based batteries, ive heard it only last 2 hours with aaa batteries?
@@curtisjudd dang thats pretty short, i assume recording with it makes it shorter? would u say that (i mainly record documentary) i would be better off getting another set of a10 for battery life. I can get european version so i can still record.
@@giuliotrejo4256 Yeah, the A20 is somewhat special purpose in my mind. It's big trick is its tiny size for tricky wardrobe. I'm hopeful there will be an A20 (non Mini) in the not-too-distant future.
Hi Curtis. There is plenty of video about recording sound and equipment in internet. But what about post production sound equipments? Should we need a proper audio interface or AV receiver maybe Zoom F series kind recorders? Can you make a video about post audio equipment for video please? Thank you…
How does it work with the restrictions on internal recording? I know it shouldn’t work in the US, but if I buy a US model (from, say, Gotham) will the internal recorder be disabled permanently, even if I work abroad? If I want a working internal recorder, will I need to buy it from a foreign distributor? Or will it only be disabled on US soil and still working in other countries? Thanks
Looking forward to the firmware update that will allow users to record and transmit at the same time in the U.S. The Zaxcom patent runs out relatively soon. 🤘🏽
My issue is the ios or Android dependency. After I spend 20k on a fully decked out Sound Devices cart I want full reliability controlled inside one ecosystem. What if Apple or Android sends out an update that makes the app crash on open and the fix has to come from the OS side? What if Apple discontinues the iPad or Google ends support for Android? The unlikelihood of this is irrelevant. The fact is when the functionality of a piece of equipment depends on a third party who’s mandate is to act in the interest of their own business and product line there’s a risk to reliability for me the end user with a 20k investment. Make everything operable from the mixer - redundancy. Relying on third party products to make it work makes it not mission critical to me.
Understood. My perspective for my own work is that the A20 Mini is a niche addition to my 4 A10 TX packs for when I need to conceal the pack under tight wardrobe. I’m hopeful that there’ll be new A20 TXs soon (non-mini). And I agree that all the settings need to be controllable from the mixer. For now, A10 TXs are my main TX packs.
In the US there are patents held by another company. So in the US, you can do one or the other but not both at the same time. Outside of the US, the A20 Mini can record and transmit simultaneously.
Great Video as always , Thanks Curtis ! , it would be great if you could make a video that explain how wireless receivers connecting to Shark Fin Antennas ? is it a must to use device like PSC RF Multi SMA that kind of device ?
Most production sound mix carts for TV and Film us LPDA fin style antennae because you can usually get more range with them. But I’d you’re working indoors in a small space with just a couple of channels of wireless they’re not as critical.
Thank you Curtis, timely and helpful! Question: did you use an off-the-shelf Shure TL48? Because I seem to recall that some Shure lavs (Twinplex? Duraplex?) use different pin-outs compared to standard Lemo-3. I asked Sound Devices and they believe standard TL47/48 Lemo-3 wiring should work as is-but they haven’t tried themselves.
Other factors in using more expensive equipment include the tax advantages of amortizing the cost over time. Eventually they pay for themselves. But the lack of controls for the "talent" to futz with which can be nearly as important as all all the other features combined.
I am a rank amateur at this stuff, so take this for what it is worth. With respect to the gain forward capability, it seems like this would mainly be a benefit for real-time level adjustment, i.e. when all sound source channels are combined and recorded into a single channel immediately. If the separate sources are kept separate on the receiving end, it seems like at least the level adjustments could be performed later in post. Also, since the adjustments are performed on the receiving end after the analog sound has been digitized, any A/D converter overdrive or underdrive problems could not be corrected on the receiving end. Does any of this make sense?
I noticed that the diagram indicated floating point digital transmission. This would allow for wide range of gain. But it needs to be converted into a fixed bit range for recording in a standard format.
@@schooltechnology I noticed the floating point transmission also, but wondered how that helps if the original digitized value is over/under range. The diagram shows a "multi-stage a/d converter". Maybe that is some kind of special a/d converter that adapts to a wide range of input voltages?
@@schooltechnology I found the manufacturers description of the GainFoward design. It depends on floating point transmission and a multi-stage A/D converter, plus a low-noise, high dynamic range pre-amp. In their words: “There are three necessary elements that make the GainForward Architecture possible: 1) a very low-noise microphone preamplifier with significant dynamic range; 2) patented multi-stage ADC (analog-to-digital converter) topology to capture the entire dynamic range of the analog source; 3) floating-point digital RF transmission.” which all helps to explain the high cost.
The SL version comes with the back plate for slot systems like the SL2. I’m sure you can use it with 6XX series recorders but I don’t know whether you get full control via the mixer. You’ll want to contact SD support to confirm that.
@@curtisjudd you can use the receivers with any recorder, but the SL2 only works with the 8 Series. And the SL6 only works with the Sound Devices 688 & Scorpio.
Hey, thanks for this and everything on the channel. One question I'm always pondering is what the logical step up is from the basic Sennheiser G4/AVX level wireless systems is? It's incredibly unclear. For many projects I'll have a sound recordist but sometimes... not. And then it's mostly being stressed about the unreliable gain levels on low/mid range wireless units. Ideally there would be something robust that recored 32 bit float and maybe threw in a low cut to the transmitter and a receiver that doesn't assume you're putting it in an audio bag. Does such a thing exist?
@@adriangoodman you can't monitor that from the receiver. Or can you? Seems like the jump up from Sennheiser's units is actually to the Sound Devices or Lectro units. But it's like 4x. Huge opportunity for someone.
@@blnksktch With the non-US version of the Track E you can attach a transmitter to the headphone jack and monitor in real time (I do that using a Rode Wireless Go as a transmitter).
awesome video! btw... what about the lavs and mic ? are there even better ones pros use ? right now i use a Sennheiser mkh8070 and i want to buy a a good lav soon
@@soundmixervegas Zaxcom has a patent so Sound Devices has opted NOT to allow recording and transmitting at the same time so that they don't risk ending up in court, sued by Zaxcom.
@@curtisjudd thanks. I'm sure you've talked about ADR before, but my memory ... well, I had to look it up. And after seeing a lot of links to some Agreement about transportation of Dangerous goods by Road (and figured that that probably wasn't it), I included "audio" in my search and found Automated Dialogue Replacement. Thanks again.
Prior to the A20 (or A10) series? Then Lectrosonics Digital Hybrid was very very VERY popular, and still is today. (my own wireless is mostly Lectro Digital Hybrids) Before Lectro Digital Hybrid? Then their Lectro 200 Series! Before that? Then it was their single fixed frequency UHF wireless from Lectro. Before THAT? Then it was Lectro's VHF wireless. But what about even before that? Well, wireless did exist and was used. But it really was very rare. You saw much more usage of long shotguns such as the Sennheiser MKH816, and the entire production was a lot less anti-Sound than they are today! So they'd work with you, rather than against you, to get the sound you needed. Respect for sound has apparently fallen a lot from what it used to be decades ago, or so I've heard from veterans.
Self funding can be done in many interesting ways, especially if you know the tax system. Most places expenses, also for new production equipment, is tax deductible. And so is resale value loss over time. Sometimes the system works so that if you want to shield profits from taxes, you simply invest in more production gear, and then you have the option to re-sell gear when or if you suddenly need more ahem _liquidity._ Knowing VAT rules can also help, and oftentimes there are special rebates for art, creative or cultural work, meaning you can write off VAT in those sectors. Check your local tax code for what is possible.
LOL! No, for me, the A20 is for special cases where I need the TX to be as small as possible. I don’t work on sets as big as feature film and TV series.
Why is that we sound engineer *always* have to justify the extra money spent on our highest-end gear?! No one goes around thinking it's dumb to rent a quarter-million calibrated zoom lens from Panavision or to own an Arri. Lectrosonic system used on pretty all you favorite Hollywood movies and streamed shows those days - and in big live shows, think Cirque du Soleil, etc - costing around 5000 dollars for a single combo of emitter and receiver, so around 300 dollars more than those units. Compared to camera systems tho, the price is tiny...!
I agree. Few seem to bat an eye at a RUclips reviewer who sings the praises of a $2500 DSLR lens. Setting intelligent priorities is where many of us get mixed up.
There are different pros doing different types of work ad they each need different things. I'm a pro, and this is a useful addition to my kit, though I will say that the A20 Mini is not my primary transmitter pack - it is a specialty option versus my A10 transmitters.
@@curtisjudd Haha, yes. Certainly, when you need the A20 Mini, it is a massive lifesaver! But most pros I've talked to are just really annoyed with the app and battery life :P
Sound error(s) do not automatically cause a reshoot, or even a retake if the visuals are right. They take the actors into the sound studio and lip sync the scene.
Would love to know the lifetime and serviceability of a unit that costs 2.2kusd. I hope app support is extensive and you are getting at least 10 to 15 years warrantee than this being ewaste in 1 to 5 years (Apple being the perfect case of charging way too much while having short short lifespans of nearly unrepairable products)(I would be ok for Apple charging their prices if their products also were guaranteed for 10 years - successfully supporting OS updates while guaranteeing speeds 10 years into the future, because the hardware is controlled and the developer of your hardware is the same as the software developer)
The warranty certainly is NOT 10-15 years, but Sound Devices does service their gear and the last generation of products were in production for well over 10 years and I believe they still offer repair service even now they are out of production.
@@curtisjudd I would love companies to be transparent about their costs for running a repair program and making it clear here is the price to have a product with component repairability for at least 10 years
![Oasis - Oasis Live '25 [Official Trailer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/gol_JnuEtKM/mqdefault.jpg)
At some point, when it's mission critical and reshoots cost both a fortune and your future in the industry, you end up getting the value of the prices of professional gear.
Agreed. 👍
Pro gear fails just as often as not-so-pro gear
@@dennypilot9856 then are you really sure that you really know how to use them? I have seen individuals complaining about Sennheiser’s wireless G4 cause it get so much interference, turns out they just used it out of the box without changing any of the settings…
@@dennypilot9856 And usually, pro gear is repairable and the companies who offer it also offer repair options. Consumer electronics companies often do not in 2022.
@@naruto5046 pro gear is produced by companies with much smaller R&D and production budgets than the largest tech companies in the world... Yet products produced by Samsung, Google (especially Google), Apple fail too.
I love these "why do pros use this" videos. I always learn a lot. Gain forward is very interesting. I'm gonna have to look into that some more.
👍
Great overview Curtis. Pros require bulletproof equipment and you pay for that. Movies and TV shows range from $10-$200 per SECOND on many union shows and they don't tolerate waiting for nonreliable gear. They'll replace you if you can't acquire the sound they require and when.
The biggest issue I have with the A20 is that it's completely menu driven. On the A10 if we do a rolling restart and I have 5-10 seconds to turn on the limiter or increase the power, I can do that but on the A20 I have to connect my phone to the A20, navigate the menu and make the adjustment. Annoying.
Thanks Allen. Fair point re: menu navigation via phone. I have to think they’ll update the A10 TX at some point.
I suspect that we'll be seeing a more full-featured but larger A20TX before long, hopefully with an upgrade option similar to what they offered for the A10RX. In addition to the phone UI hassles, it also can't do things like balanced inputs via AC-BALXLR-4. That leaves the boom operators out of the party.
@Sound Speeds And yet they'll give hours to the lighting and camera dept to do their bit, but expect us to be ready in 5 minutes, I've been fired before because the director didn't like me adjusting my boom pole or wrangling cables because we were falling behind, he didn't seem to mind the talent blowing their lines though. And....there's never a budget to rent audio kit, but renting cameras and lighting is a tradition. I always see job adverts for soundies ending with "must have own kit" I'm an indie soundie working low budget but I experience this already.
@@curtisjudd they just released today the A20-Mini battery backpack, it makes me wonder if perhaps they won't update the A10 TX, and intend the A20-Mini to be the only one, now that they've "fixed" the very poor battery life.
@@johnmellor932 yeppp. It is what it is and that won’t change. It’s all about the picture. Take it or leave it.
Other big reasons to use professional wireless:
Removable antennas for the transmitters and receivers. (so you can for instance include them in an RF Distro)
A range of compatible transmitter options. (I reckon this was one of the biggest reasons Lectrosonics became so successful. Want a waterproof TX? Done. Want a micro sized TX? Done. Want a TX with massive battery life? Done. Want a no frill cheaper TX? Done. etc etc etc)
Good points, thanks!
For once, I’ve watched a video about expensive gear and NOT felt the immediate need to upgrade 😂😂 Thanks for the education, my friend!
👍
Always glad to see pro gear discussed here. It has its place, for sure. Get a reputation for holding up production to mess with balky sound gear and you'll soon be home with your feet up, not hired.
I recently saw a short video about the lead on-set mixer-recordist on the Heartland (CBC) series. In my opinion, the Heartland dialog sound is among the best and cleanest I've ever heard. There just isn't time in this guy's day for tinkering with balky gear. All of his equipment must be highly portable for the many set locations -- many are outdoors. Outdoor temps in Alberta are hugely variable, and I've seen them film in the falling snow and rain. The crew is huge and daylight is precious. You wouldn't want to be 'that guy' who holds up the production schedule due to interference, garbled dialog, or cable/connector failures.
Eh? ;)
Indeed, no! Eh!
As a self funded person, I can't afford this type of upgrade yet.
I have to say this type of video is very helpful to understand what is available and why.
Your videos and your courses have helped me SO very much Curtis, Thank you for the work you do.
Thanks!
The UK and Canada versions have recording and transmitting mode enabled simultaneously since the zaxcom patent doesn't apply in those regions. Pretty awesome.
Yes, looking forward to the expiration of those patents.
@@curtisjudd I'm curious when the expiration of those patents is!
@@KonnorGann Me, too.
@@curtisjudd looks like some of the patents expire in 2025 or 2028, hard to know exactly. so maybe sooner than we think.
I use the DJI system currently but I can certainly see the need for the A20 Mini when doing big budget work where reliability, quality and speed are the priority. It's like the difference with using Sound Devices recorders compared to ZOOM or TASCAM units. They all can do the job and they all have their own niche uses. The same as when NAGRA was the chosen over UHER and other analog reel tape recorders used for portable location recordings. A comparison of the RODE, DJI and the Sound Devices wireless recorders would be interesting if presented in a single presentation.
Do you mean DJI mic?
@@curtisjudd Sorry ...late night typing mistake. Yes I do mean DJI as it's sitting on my desk in front of me this very moment. AARRGGHH I've updated my original post.
I'm not surprised that this costs so much. Professional camera gear is expensive too and has a lot more features than consumer gear. People don't wonder about that as much. But great sound is just as important as a great picture if not even more important.
Sound is half the picture.
Couldn’t agree more.
I'd love to know how they crammed floating-point into the same width channel as the existing A10TX. I can't help but wonder if they're actually sending some flavor of FP24 over the air to keep the bitrate constant. That would be reasonable and very unlikely to introduce any detectable quality degradation relative to A10TX's Int24. The fact that an A10RX can accept the A20's full-range signal with only a firmware upgrade indicates just how much programmability (presumably via FPGA) high end SD stuff has. I would not be surprised to see FP recording in the 8-series before long, again via firmware/bitstream upgrade. For now you can simply route the A20 to multiple channels with different trim values to create safety channels.
One thing the A20 can't do AFAIK is handle balanced mics as the A10TX can. I expect to see an A20TX for that before long.
Also probably worth mentioning that you can get your A10RX upgraded to A20RX for $750 if you buy an A20 or if you bought your A10RX within the last 12 months. It's $1K otherwise IIRC.
I'm not sure I'd choose the DJI Mic as my example of a consumer system. It's slick and convenient, but with every mic I tested (DPA 4060, COS-11D, Deity, random cheap ones I have laying around) its noise floor was significantly worse than the fixed-gain Rode Go II, regardless of the DJI's TX gain setting. Admittedly the noise floor is more than good enough for simple close-mic'ed applications, but even so I'd choose the Rode just to not have to worry about it.
Probably 24-bit float is my guess.
I bought two of these and as great as the size is - not having manual buttons loses points for me. After one drop inside of a house the bluetooth connectivity for one device broke so the only thing I could do was manually turn it on and off, couldn't change the frequency. Then the battery doubler for one snapped off when I was just opening it. Wasn't forceful or anything, it just broke at the hinges. Pretty disappointed given how expensive these are and accidents can happen on set. I'm sending it in for repair and I'm lucky that the gig I'm on is fairly simple in terms of the number of characters that I can work with what I have left. Back ups of back ups are important and it's a learning lesson for me moving forward with Sound Devices transmitters. At least the A10's have buttons and are compatible with the A20 RX, so I might work with those and only use the A20's if absolutely necessary for less bulk and easier hiding.
Yes, I only pull out the A20 Mini when I have to hide it and the wardrobe is tightly fitting
Thanks for making this video, Curtis. It's a really good overview of the advanced features along with use cases showing when and where a professional would rely on them. Well done!
- Martin
Thanks, Martin.
When the antenna is placed very close to the skin I've heard several reports of lower than expected range with the A20, that I haven't experienced with the Zaxcom ZMT4 and ZMT4-X. Also Shure Axient Digital definitely has the best transmission range across the board. If Shure implements simultaneous record and transmit when the Zaxcom patent expires in 2025, I'll strongly consider switching to them.
The firmware for the Long Range modulation came out not too long ago, so I’d reassess the lower expected range claims now. I’m sure they’re similar to Shure now. So both of them stand at the top in terms of range.
You’re right though. It hardly matters for Zax since you have a backup while transmitting with Zax. Can’t wait until their patent expires haha
Nice that there are several great options in 2022. 👍
Am also waiting for the Shure ADX3, I think that's even more important to me than internal recording.
Just saw you were now at 200K subscribers, Curtis! Congratulations!!! 🎉
Thank YOU, Todd!
Thanks this was a great and helpful overview to understand Pro vs. Semi-Pro. It pains me that the Zaxcom patent cripples so many Pro, Semi-Pro, and Consumer wireless devices in the States. Unfortunately the patent doesn't expire until 2030.
👍
I have been wondering about this for a long time. Thank you very much
🙏
Even as an amateur, as much as I love my Rode Wireless Go, it runs on the same spectrum as my camera's remote control app. So, I am often losing the connection to my camera once I turn on my wireless mic.
Yes, there’s a big downside to 2.4GHz wireless systems.
Thank you for the good overview.
You're most welcome!
Hi Curtis, How about phantom power? Does it have its own phantom power? Hence, Can I use it as a boom mic transmitter? As always, thank you for this and all your videos on RUclips. Your channel has been my favorite for years
No, the A-20 Mini is for lavalier mics. You'd use the A10 for mics which need phantom power.
In addition to the valid reasons listed for the high price, there is also the basic factor of a low volume market in play. They don't sell nearly as many of these as for example Shure & its wireless products, which means they aren't producing in the sort of quantities that Shure does, hence the component cost will be higher.
Yes, another good point. Thanks Karl.
The scale of economics comes in to play also . This pro level equipment is very highly engineered and developed and is going to be sold to a customer base that will be a lot smaller than say consumer level wireless systems. Rode, DJI and others are hoping to sell tens or even hundred of thousands of their units while systems like the A20 will be sold in much smaller quantities to a much more niche group of people. They have to get that R&D money back on a much smaller per unit basis. Even if Sound Devices sold a million of them it would still cost more because it's a higher quality and more capable unit.
As I always say, cheaper consumer level equipment works well in ideal conditions and the pro level equipment works well in less than ideal conditions. And that is why it cost more.
Great points 👍
I believe in the production sound world, most of the manufacturers supply the niche retailers but your point stands. They only sell through specialized retailers with staff skilled enough to not only represent and sell the gear, but in many cases, also service the gear.
Very interesting! I like learning about the entire spectrum of audio gear.
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Thank you, Curtis very informative documentary, on Sound Devices radio mic. Is case very strong, meaning can radio mic withstand height of 100 feet drop onto on to concrete from block of apartments.
Probably not, no. But it could be repaired. And that's not something most consumer product companies wouldn't offer.
Truly enjoy your videos they are always premiere quality.
Thanks Walter.
This is great content. Thanks for level setting expectations 🎉
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Hi Curtis, I really enjoyed the video. Mainly because you presented a fact, i.e. professional gear is expensive and worth it, without fuss and with the level of professionalism that characterise your videos. Thanks a lot! Finally, I work in another field and I can promise that the prices we are talking about here very low in comparison, 😉
Thanks, Carlos. 👍
Hey Curtis, thanks for this video! But may I ask why there is so much noise gating going on this time while you're talking? I'm listening over headphones and got quite distracted because of the obvious noise floor when you are speaking, but not in the pauses. Doesn't happen in other videos. What was the cause? RF transmitting?
Manual attenuation of the breaths in post. It is not an issue with the wireless system. More of an issue with my breathing.
from what i know many of these sets also use stuff such as electronics and sure axient wireless systems.
Lectrosonics, Wisycom, Shure, etc. yes.
Great explanation as usual.
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As always, excellent content from your side… Thanks ;-)
Thanks.
People así me why I rig up the camera and carry large batteries and loads of lighting gear to small gigs. I'd rather be over prepared than stopping the shoot because conditions changed and I'm not ready.
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Is there something in between this and the current diety theos or the upcoming dltx theos? The wide range is hard to find
Wisycom?
Would like to see Curtis dress up as Joker for halloween and make a video that shows how he would record some creepy foley noise with his sound gear.
Who’s the joker?
Nice overview of a pro product. I have to say the lav and a20/a10 combination that you are using for the video sounds really good.
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Very helpful as always
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Would you like to do a review on Deity PR-2 likely their first 32bit float recorder?
Yes.
Would you pick this a20 mini system or The lectrosonics dbsm single battery body packs and dual receiver system ?
I chose this, but, but, but, the A20 mini is a special purpose TX and I only use it when I have to hide on wardrobe is very form fitting or when the shoot will be short. Battery life is very short on this. I use the regular A10 RX for most cases.
The super wide frequency range is particularly attractive.
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Very interesting.
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Time to get the popcorn 🍿. Thanks for all the great content.
Thanks Kevin. Enjoy!
The TV show 'Survivor' does an amazing job of capturing audio from afar, hiding the equipment very well. I wonder how they do that ... ???
Lots of clever hiding.
They're wearing a lav in their necklaces.
Hey Curtis!
I've actually been waanting to get a pair of these as my next big purchase for my kit. I have a set of a10s already and love them. I know the qualiy of the a20 transmiters is amazing, however i hear bad things about the battery life? do you know how long it would last with the sony based batteries, ive heard it only last 2 hours with aaa batteries?
Depends on settings but about 2-3 hours
@@curtisjudd dang thats pretty short, i assume recording with it makes it shorter? would u say that (i mainly record documentary) i would be better off getting another set of a10 for battery life. I can get european version so i can still record.
@@giuliotrejo4256 Yeah, the A20 is somewhat special purpose in my mind. It's big trick is its tiny size for tricky wardrobe. I'm hopeful there will be an A20 (non Mini) in the not-too-distant future.
Check out the new battery backpack that Sound Devices just announced for the A20-Mini.
Otherwise consider Sony DWX? Their battery life is really good!
@@SoundSpeeding just saw them earlier today. Defs a must buy for me if I get the a20s, just a little worried about the wonky shape haha.
Good stuff ! Tools of the trade I agree.
Tools, indeed 👍
Hi Curtis. There is plenty of video about recording sound and equipment in internet. But what about post production sound equipments? Should we need a proper audio interface or AV receiver maybe Zoom F series kind recorders? Can you make a video about post audio equipment for video please? Thank you…
Ok.
@@curtisjudd Thank you
Very interesting, thank you. Even if I doubt I will decide to become a professional sound mixer at the age of 72½. 🤣
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Whats is the best receiver for this a20mini to get all the newest features out of this a20mini?
A20 receiver supports gain forward.
Great video as usual.
Thanks.
Does this allow for recording (32-bit float) *and* transmitting at the same time, or is it an either/or option on the phone app?
In the US it is either/or not both because of patents held by another company. Outside of the US I believe you can do both simultaneously.
How does it work with the restrictions on internal recording? I know it shouldn’t work in the US, but if I buy a US model (from, say, Gotham) will the internal recorder be disabled permanently, even if I work abroad? If I want a working internal recorder, will I need to buy it from a foreign distributor? Or will it only be disabled on US soil and still working in other countries? Thanks
I believe you’ll need to buy the non-US version but best to contact SD support to confirm.
Looking forward to the firmware update that will allow users to record and transmit at the same time in the U.S. The Zaxcom patent runs out relatively soon. 🤘🏽
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Outside of the US the A20 can transmit and record 32 Float at the same time. I believe Zaxcom owns the patent on this idea.
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My issue is the ios or Android dependency. After I spend 20k on a fully decked out Sound Devices cart I want full reliability controlled inside one ecosystem. What if Apple or Android sends out an update that makes the app crash on open and the fix has to come from the OS side? What if Apple discontinues the iPad or Google ends support for Android? The unlikelihood of this is irrelevant. The fact is when the functionality of a piece of equipment depends on a third party who’s mandate is to act in the interest of their own business and product line there’s a risk to reliability for me the end user with a 20k investment. Make everything operable from the mixer - redundancy.
Relying on third party products to make it work makes it not mission critical to me.
Understood. My perspective for my own work is that the A20 Mini is a niche addition to my 4 A10 TX packs for when I need to conceal the pack under tight wardrobe. I’m hopeful that there’ll be new A20 TXs soon (non-mini). And I agree that all the settings need to be controllable from the mixer. For now, A10 TXs are my main TX packs.
Hi Curtis, I was under the impression that you can record to and transmit from the A20-Mini simultaneously. Is that not the case?
In the US there are patents held by another company. So in the US, you can do one or the other but not both at the same time. Outside of the US, the A20 Mini can record and transmit simultaneously.
@@curtisjudd Ah, I see. Thank you.
Great Video as always , Thanks Curtis ! , it would be great if you could make a video that explain how wireless receivers connecting to Shark Fin Antennas ? is it a must to use device like PSC RF Multi SMA that kind of device ?
Most production sound mix carts for TV and Film us LPDA fin style antennae because you can usually get more range with them. But I’d you’re working indoors in a small space with just a couple of channels of wireless they’re not as critical.
You wouldn't want to use a pair of shark fins for each and every receiver you have, that's madness! Thus that is why you need an RF Distro.
Cool tech and reasons for it
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It would be great if you might be able to review or do a rundown on wearable recorders that support both 32 bit and timecode.
That’ll be this, the Tentacle Track E ruclips.net/video/W2mdXyhmtyg/видео.html and the ZOOM F2: ruclips.net/video/2y51ptCAOdI/видео.html
@@curtisjudd The Zoom F2 supports timecode? Can you sync it to a Zoom F6?
@@darrenorange2982 The Bluetooth version does, I believe, with the ATOMOS Ultrasonic Blue. But I might have that wrong.
@@darrenorange2982 only the F2-BT does TC, not the plain F2
Thank you Curtis, timely and helpful! Question: did you use an off-the-shelf Shure TL48? Because I seem to recall that some Shure lavs (Twinplex? Duraplex?) use different pin-outs compared to standard Lemo-3. I asked Sound Devices and they believe standard TL47/48 Lemo-3 wiring should work as is-but they haven’t tried themselves.
No, mine was custom terminated for A10
Very interesting!
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Other factors in using more expensive equipment include the tax advantages of amortizing the cost over time. Eventually they pay for themselves. But the lack of controls for the "talent" to futz with which can be nearly as important as all all the other features combined.
Another good point, thanks Ted.
I am a rank amateur at this stuff, so take this for what it is worth.
With respect to the gain forward capability, it seems like this would mainly be a benefit for real-time level adjustment, i.e. when all sound source channels are combined and recorded into a single channel immediately. If the separate sources are kept separate on the receiving end, it seems like at least the level adjustments could be performed later in post. Also, since the adjustments are performed on the receiving end after the analog sound has been digitized, any A/D converter overdrive or underdrive problems could not be corrected on the receiving end. Does any of this make sense?
I noticed that the diagram indicated floating point digital transmission. This would allow for wide range of gain. But it needs to be converted into a fixed bit range for recording in a standard format.
@@schooltechnology I noticed the floating point transmission also, but wondered how that helps if the original digitized value is over/under range. The diagram shows a "multi-stage a/d converter". Maybe that is some kind of special a/d converter that adapts to a wide range of input voltages?
@@schooltechnology I found the manufacturers description of the GainFoward design. It depends on floating point transmission and a multi-stage A/D converter, plus a low-noise, high dynamic range pre-amp. In their words:
“There are three necessary elements that make the GainForward Architecture possible: 1) a very low-noise microphone preamplifier with significant dynamic range; 2) patented multi-stage ADC (analog-to-digital converter) topology to capture the entire dynamic range of the analog source; 3) floating-point digital RF transmission.”
which all helps to explain the high cost.
The dynamic range is truly impressive when you get a chance to work with it. Their implementation works really well.
Curtis what the difference between the A20 RX vs RX-Sl and can you use these with a Sound Devices 633 or Mix pre 10
The SL version comes with the back plate for slot systems like the SL2. I’m sure you can use it with 6XX series recorders but I don’t know whether you get full control via the mixer. You’ll want to contact SD support to confirm that.
@@curtisjudd you can use the receivers with any recorder, but the SL2 only works with the 8 Series.
And the SL6 only works with the Sound Devices 688 & Scorpio.
Hey, thanks for this and everything on the channel. One question I'm always pondering is what the logical step up is from the basic Sennheiser G4/AVX level wireless systems is? It's incredibly unclear. For many projects I'll have a sound recordist but sometimes... not. And then it's mostly being stressed about the unreliable gain levels on low/mid range wireless units. Ideally there would be something robust that recored 32 bit float and maybe threw in a low cut to the transmitter and a receiver that doesn't assume you're putting it in an audio bag. Does such a thing exist?
Tentacle Track E
@@adriangoodman you can't monitor that from the receiver. Or can you? Seems like the jump up from Sennheiser's units is actually to the Sound Devices or Lectro units. But it's like 4x. Huge opportunity for someone.
@@blnksktch With the non-US version of the Track E you can attach a transmitter to the headphone jack and monitor in real time (I do that using a Rode Wireless Go as a transmitter).
@@adriangoodman aaah. Clever!
You can now monitor from the app.
awesome video! btw... what about the lavs and mic ? are there even better ones pros use ? right now i use a Sennheiser mkh8070 and i want to buy a a good lav soon
Here’s a look at some pro grade lavalier mics: ruclips.net/video/tXb7Ov-S6dc/видео.html
@@curtisjudd aaah awesome i have not seen that one, thank you very much!
Take a look at the DPA 6060, Shure Twinplex, and Sony ECM88B
@@SoundSpeeding nice! Thanks!
Can it record and transmit at the same time?
Outside of the US, yes. It isn’t a technical limitation. It is a patent issue.
@@curtisjudd issue?
@@soundmixervegas Zaxcom has a patent so Sound Devices has opted NOT to allow recording and transmitting at the same time so that they don't risk ending up in court, sued by Zaxcom.
Just the video to my question of why the heck this gadget is expensive.
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I'm a good 10 years away from this kit. And then it'd be second hand. God....
But now you know what to expect in 10 years 🙃
What did professionals use before this kind of device was invented?
Boom mics and a lot less flexibility and more ADR.
@@curtisjudd thanks. I'm sure you've talked about ADR before, but my memory ... well, I had to look it up. And after seeing a lot of links to some Agreement about transportation of Dangerous goods by Road (and figured that that probably wasn't it), I included "audio" in my search and found Automated Dialogue Replacement. Thanks again.
Prior to the A20 (or A10) series? Then Lectrosonics Digital Hybrid was very very VERY popular, and still is today. (my own wireless is mostly Lectro Digital Hybrids)
Before Lectro Digital Hybrid? Then their Lectro 200 Series!
Before that? Then it was their single fixed frequency UHF wireless from Lectro.
Before THAT? Then it was Lectro's VHF wireless.
But what about even before that? Well, wireless did exist and was used. But it really was very rare.
You saw much more usage of long shotguns such as the Sennheiser MKH816, and the entire production was a lot less anti-Sound than they are today! So they'd work with you, rather than against you, to get the sound you needed. Respect for sound has apparently fallen a lot from what it used to be decades ago, or so I've heard from veterans.
Self funding can be done in many interesting ways, especially if you know the tax system. Most places expenses, also for new production equipment, is tax deductible. And so is resale value loss over time. Sometimes the system works so that if you want to shield profits from taxes, you simply invest in more production gear, and then you have the option to re-sell gear when or if you suddenly need more ahem _liquidity._ Knowing VAT rules can also help, and oftentimes there are special rebates for art, creative or cultural work, meaning you can write off VAT in those sectors. Check your local tax code for what is possible.
Good point, thanks for sharing.
Waiting on a Tentacle Track E with wireless transmission to crash the market.
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Tax write offs are a big reason too. Use the gear get the writeoff, then sell it used. Recoupe your losses.
Good point, thanks for that, LongtowerNyc.
So, will you be selling your A10s now? Asking for a friend.
LOL! No, for me, the A20 is for special cases where I need the TX to be as small as possible. I don’t work on sets as big as feature film and TV series.
Why is that we sound engineer *always* have to justify the extra money spent on our highest-end gear?! No one goes around thinking it's dumb to rent a quarter-million calibrated zoom lens from Panavision or to own an Arri. Lectrosonic system used on pretty all you favorite Hollywood movies and streamed shows those days - and in big live shows, think Cirque du Soleil, etc - costing around 5000 dollars for a single combo of emitter and receiver, so around 300 dollars more than those units. Compared to camera systems tho, the price is tiny...!
I agree. Few seem to bat an eye at a RUclips reviewer who sings the praises of a $2500 DSLR lens. Setting intelligent priorities is where many of us get mixed up.
Frankly, every pro I've ever met or talked to does everything they can to avoid using the A20 Mini.
There are different pros doing different types of work ad they each need different things. I'm a pro, and this is a useful addition to my kit, though I will say that the A20 Mini is not my primary transmitter pack - it is a specialty option versus my A10 transmitters.
@@curtisjudd Haha, yes. Certainly, when you need the A20 Mini, it is a massive lifesaver! But most pros I've talked to are just really annoyed with the app and battery life :P
Sound error(s) do not automatically cause a reshoot, or even a retake if the visuals are right. They take the actors into the sound studio and lip sync the scene.
True in some cases. Not always the case for TV productions.
Why are those things so damn expensive? :(
That’s what we covered in the video. Super niche product which required quite a bit of R&D. Also, they work really well.
@@curtisjudd i know i watched it, it was more of an outcry and not so serious.
@@patlecat Yes, my wallet feels this.
Would love to know the lifetime and serviceability of a unit that costs 2.2kusd. I hope app support is extensive and you are getting at least 10 to 15 years warrantee than this being ewaste in 1 to 5 years (Apple being the perfect case of charging way too much while having short short lifespans of nearly unrepairable products)(I would be ok for Apple charging their prices if their products also were guaranteed for 10 years - successfully supporting OS updates while guaranteeing speeds 10 years into the future, because the hardware is controlled and the developer of your hardware is the same as the software developer)
The warranty certainly is NOT 10-15 years, but Sound Devices does service their gear and the last generation of products were in production for well over 10 years and I believe they still offer repair service even now they are out of production.
@@curtisjudd I would love companies to be transparent about their costs for running a repair program and making it clear here is the price to have a product with component repairability for at least 10 years
@@dragade101 Me too.
So the receiver becomes a recorder???? Am-az-ing!
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The Spectraband Technology is very appealing to me, still I can't really decide if I want to go wisycom or SD, I wish I could try them before buying
Yes, tough to do that if you’re not near one of the production sound stores.
$2200? Really... That's why the pros use that...
And all the features.